Today is my daughter’s last day of camp. This camp was only supposed to be two weeks but it had to be three weeks because of a mandate from the city. When we learned that, we paid for the extra week and kept her in.
It is a sailing camp and it requires a lot, both physically and psychologically. We are not a family that sails, or does much of anything on the water, so she is learning everything there. She went to this camp for one week last summer, but that is the extent of her sailing experience.
It’s been a long three weeks. She is tired and ready to be done. This week especially has been hard. She doesn’t want to go most mornings, those she’s always happy, if not exhausted, when she gets back.
Yesterday was one of the first really warm days of the summer (at least for us up in San Francisco). Today is supposed to be even warmer. I was excited for them that they got warm days on the final two days of camp.
This morning one of the other girl’s mom texted to say she wasn’t going. She was tired from all the sun the day before and was going to sit the last day out. I have to admit, I was pretty shocked. Who doesn’t go to the last day of a three week camp? Don’t you want to say goodbye? It’s especially strange to me when we will all be stuck at home for the next nine months wishing desperately we had something like this to do.
I made the mistake of telling my daughter her friend wasn’t going while we were getting ready. She was very upset. It was a difficult morning. She kept asking why her friend wasn’t coming and I didn’t know how to respond. I said she was tired and got a lot of sun and didn’t feel that great. My daughter said that was true for her too. And I’m sure it was. But I don’t let my daughter miss stuff because she’s tired. And I always make my kids finish what they started.
It seems that very few of my kids’ friends families make them finish what they started. They quit activities because they don’t want to keep doing them. They don’t go to school because they “just need a break.” I am definitely one of the few moms I know who force my kids to do stuff when they don’t want to. Yes, they stay home when they are sick, but otherwise, they show up.
But I wonder sometimes if I’m doing that wrong. I was never allowed to miss school. I literally didn’t miss a day for SEVEN YEARS. I had mumps during that time but I still went to school (to be fair, I don’t get fevers often and no one knew it was mumps for a while because we get vaccinated against them and they aren’t very common anymore – by the time they diagnosed it I was pretty much better). My mom grew up in a family of 12; her mom died when she was seven, and her dad was an abusive alcoholic, so she was probably not well cared for when she sick. I understand that she was doing the best she knew how when I was growing up. But I don’t think she always made the right choices around allowing me stay home when I was sick. And I worry that the mindset of “we show up unless we’re very ill” is ingrained in me more than I realize.
I do think my work ethic plays a part in my successes. I always show up and I follow through on my commitments, to myself and others (well, always to others and mostly to myself). I think it’s important to teach my kids to show up when they said they would do something, or when there is an expectation they will participate (like for a class presentation at the triennial cultural nights). I think it’s important to show them they can push through a little discomfort or boredom to do something they aren’t that excited to do. But it seems like I’m alone in pushing this stuff a lot of the time and I wonder if I’m being too stubborn. I wonder if I am less capable of recognizing legitimate reasons to sit something out.
I reached out to my friend about her why her daughter didn’t come. I guess she gets overheated easily and had a hard time sleeping last night because she was dehydrated. It sounded like a perfectly reasonable reason to stay home from camp, even on the last day, and especially if you knew it was supposed to be even hotter. But I knew as I read her texts that I probably would have made my daughter go in a similar situation. I would have sent her with extra water and told her to get through the day.
Which answer is the right one? Or is the range of acceptability bigger than I realize?
What are your thoughts on finishing what you’ve started and/or not doing something because you just need a break? I’d love to get some guidance on this from people with different backgrounds and attitudes. I really feel like I can’t trust myself on this stuff at all.
Oooh. I love this question. It’s a hard one. It’s hard to really know what’s going on in a family. Different kids have different limits. For example, you’ve mentioned your kids shower 2-3 times a week and in other families, that wouldn’t be acceptable. My kids bathe 6 days a week usually. But I don’t think you are giving up! You know what your kids can handle and have decided that this is enough. I’m actually extremely sensitive to heat and dehydrate easily so I can see myself not being able to go to an outdoor camp during a heat wave. But some people may think I’m not tough and perhaps self indulgent. I had a strong sense of obligation, even as a child, so I think I probably would have gone for the last day but if I said I didn’t want to because I didn’t feel well my parents would have accommodated that.
Last spring I didn’t make my son do every zoom session. He really hated the big group zooms and I didn’t think they were important given that the world seemed to be in free fall and he could learn independently. School started this week and the expectation is that he attends. But what’s hard is that on the very first day, his best friend stopped after two hours because he didn’t like it. He has been checking out early every day, which makes it harder to get my son to stick to it. His friend’s mom and I clearly have different opinions on how much we should force our kids to stick to distance learning. But she feels really strongly that she can’t push too hard.
There are no right answers I guess. I think I’m generally a finish what you start person but I’m not dogmatic about it.
Wow, your kids bathe 6 days a week? My daughter is 8 and I’m just starting to make her shower 3 days/week because her hair gets greasy. My son (6) is probably twice a week. It’s so interesting how we all have different things we prioritize as parents.
I absolutely make sure that my kids live up to their commitments unless they have a very good reason not to. And “I don’t feel like it” or “it’s not fun” or “I need a break” don’t qualify as good reasons.
On the other hand, “I’m sick” (assuming they really are sick) is a perfectly legitimate reason.
We made my daughter finish swim team when she was 6 because we had signed up for the year, and we thought it was important that she finish. She hated it, however, and we permitted her to quit the following year, which many parents in that group were shocked by. I honestly think both were right decisions. Now she’s a great swimmer, and has that skill for life, but she’s not stuck doing an activity she hates that vaguely resembles child abuse at times.
For heat exhaustion, I might have let my kid stay home. For generalized whininess, NEVER.
I have gotten more lenient about keeping Dyl home when sick over the years. I used to only keep her home with active (more than 1x) vomiting and a fever >100.4, but I’ve learned that it’s perfectly possible for her to feel like total garbage without those symptoms, and she recovers more quickly if she’s allowed to get some rest early on in the disease. It’s always a tough decision for me, and I tend to agonize over it. I think if anything, I should put less thought into it rather than more!
I literally passed out nose in salad from overheating. I physically do not do heat well. (It may be 108 where I am by this late afternoon. UGGH!) Other people in the same weather had NO problem. It is variable and each family has to know their own toleration issues and make their own decisions. Some families have chosen camps for their children, some are sending children to normal public schools this fall. Others are making different choices. The important rule is to Not Judge Others, as you do not have complete information. The second important rule is DO NOT JUDGE YOUR SELF IN COMPARISON to other families. You do not have enough information.
I think there is no absolute rule that fits all cases all the time. I’d say tell your daughter how proud you are of her accomplishment in learning and finishing. And teach/model that you and yours cannot judge for others what must be finished ~ because some day a marriage must be broken, some days a book need not be finished, some days a class must be passed to achieve a goal, some times we can discover we can do more, survive more, endure more than we thought we could. And, some times we need to know when to call it and stop. Life isn’t easy, people are amazing; we have continued to stand and survived, and bent like reeds in a high wind and survived.
There isn’t a one answer fits all truth.
PS: Thank you for writing. I am coming out of the post-op slump, loss of resilience/depression (general anesthetics do really things and have half-lives). I am very very grateful for you and your writings.
Support your post office. Buy some stamps!!!!!
Things like the camp situation: I would definitely make my kids finish.
Things they’ve asked for but then want to quit that are more long term and ongoing: depends. If it’s month to month I might make them stick with it a little while then let them quit if they truly hate it and I’m wasting my money.
School/daycare: I cringe looking back. When my youngest was a baby and we had our parent class once a week, I would skip the class if she had the slightest of runny noses. But once my kids went to daycare, they got sick a lot, and I would run out of my (generous) leave pretty quick. I am guilty of topping them off with Tylenol and sending them to daycare/school sick. Bc we don’t have family or anyone else to take care of them, and we have to go to work. I’ve even brought sick kids to work with me 😬. I’ve also gone to work sick many many times. After covid, I’ll never do those things again. Some of us are hoping that when this is all over, now that we’ve proven we can work remotely, we will be allowed to do so if we need to stay home with a sick kid or if we are sick ourselves (but well enough to work).
Another issue is the attendance push by schools—awards, etc. I get it—lots of absences are bad, schools lose funding—but otoh they shouldn’t be pushing sick kids to go to school.
There is no right answer. I second purple and rose above – don’t make your decisions based on what other people do or not do. Every kid is different, every family is different, and everyone has their own special “baggage”.
While I generally “force” my kids to finish stuff, sometimes it seems like a waste of time. For example, letting one of my kids quit baseball in the middle of the season would have probably saved me time and cut down on stress. Instead, we kept going (because we payed money! because it seemed like a bad idea to quite half-way! because what if she decided she liked it after all!). I don’t regret it but now I ask my kids 3x “are you sure you want to do this for the whole season???” before signing them up (I learned my lesson). In theory, I would have no problem letting my kids quit something that makes them absolutely miserable (or there is a personality clash with the coach) – but that hasn’t happened yet.
The only exception is music. I am 100% against quitting music – ever. It doesn’t have to be hard-core, it just has to be something… practice 15 min a day… keep taking weekly lessons… Maybe try a new teacher, or switch instruments, but keep going…. Right now, my daughter is going through a rough phase with piano practice. She wants to quit, she does not want to practice, etc, etc. On the surface, I am forcing her to keep going… (Like: PRACTICE, CHILD! OR THERE WILL BE NO BAKING, NO MOVIES, AND NO DESSERTS FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS). In reality, if she truly decides that she is done (we are talking about a strong-willed 10-year old here), I can’t really make her do anything. We’ve been through this before – she was able to push through it and went on to make excellent progress and truly enjoyed playing the piano. I hope she can do it again…
About missing school – again, depends on a kid. Two of my kids feel OK with mild colds and go to school unless they have a fever. One of my kids will be miserable, have a headache, and just needs to sleep all day. It doesn’t happen very often, and I have no problem letting her stay home and rest.
In theory, I would also allow “mental health day” – when someone is completely mentally exhausted and just needs a break. We haven’t gotten there yet (my oldest is 11, and school hasn’t been particularly stressful so far). We’ll see what happens this year with virtual school and if there is an overwhelming amount of screen time and how the kids are able to cope with multiple zoom meetings every day.
I almost always make mine finish the session when they start something, because it’s a commitment– especially if it’s a team where their participation affects others. And I used to always send them to school if they were healthy enough that the school would keep them for the day. And I used to go work myself quite sick, because I didn’t have enough sick leave. But COVID has made me re-think that approach, at least as far as potentially infectious diseases. I had a bad cold in early March, right before the shutdown, and if I unintentionally gave anyone COVID or even a bad enough cold to make them think they had COVID, I would feel really bad about it. So that was kind of a wake-up call.
If I were your friend, I would definitely let my daughter stay home for those reasons. If she’s saying her body is tired, dehydrated, fatigued, etc. and you say “you’re fine, just get through it” you’re telling your daughter you know better/more about her body than she does. In a time when we are teaching our children about consent and taking ownership of their bodies, these messages get convoluted when Mom gets final say on what her body is feeling, and ultimately decides what gets to happen to her body. I have two daughters (8 and 2) and I’ve always said, “Check in with your body. Do you need to pee? Are you thirsty? Tired?” to emphasize that their body belongs to them and to help them develop awareness about whatever state it might be in. As a result, I implicitly trust whatever my 8 year-old says is going on.
I think morals and values absolutely should be emphasized/taught/modeled to our children (for me any sign of rudeness or disrespect is a major no no), but sometimes taking a breather or a break is best for physical, mental, and emotional health. I was a huge reader growing up and starting in 6th grade my parents let me take one personal day every semester to stay home and read. It was the greatest thing! 20+ years later I still think about how great that was. Ultimately, I think kids can still develop grit and be given the grace to take a breather here and there.
I agree there is no right answer, and context is everything. I lean towards the ‘showing up side’ but therapy has helped me be kinder to myself over the years and I’m better now at seeing/deciding when to push something and when to let it be. I hope I am modeling a balanced path for my son.
Teacher Tom had a great post on this topic recently. He is on the side of not slogging it out for the sake of learning how to slog it out. I tend to think that you do need a few instances of slogging it out every now and then because it keeps your ‘fitness’ up and helps you realise what you can do if you really have to- which is important information to have. But I’m much less tough on myself than I used to be, and I think I’m generally happier for that.
http://teachertomsblog.blogspot.com/2020/08/lifes-too-short-for-that.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TeacherTom+%28Teacher+Tom%29
I love how you phrase it as slog fitness! I feel the same way! I try to challenge myself to exercise different muscles (brain and non-brain) but I’m also willing to give up if it’s making me miserable
My mom was a lot like you describe yourself, and a lot of good came from it (I learned how to finish hard things; I learned to question my ability to truly commit to something before committing; I learned quitting something – like a team sport – affects more than just me), etc. That said, as an adult I can now look back on times in my 20s where feeling like I couldn’t quit was actually quite harmful. Two of the biggest examples of that are: (1) I stayed in some unhealthy relationships MUCH longer than I should have because I didn’t want to quit (thought if I just tried harder or stayed longer it would work) and (2) my last semester of student teaching I was paired with an evil teacher. When things came to light with my college I was given the opportunity to switch to another teacher but didn’t want to quit on “my kids” so I stayed. This effectively destroyed my ability to get a teaching job (whatever she wrote in my recommendation letter was so damning that even after essentially being hired at my desired school they backed out after checking my recommendations). It’s been hard learning where the line is for myself as an adult but I think I’m there now. However, I have not yet figured out how exactly I will teach my kids the positive lessons my mom taught me BUT ALSO teach them there are times when you SHOULD quit.
I 100% would have made my kid(s) go to the final day. I mean, dehydrated? Blerg. That’s just annoying as an excuse. My kids always have to finish something they sign up for.
This is hard for me to judge too. My older sibling was a quitter in almost all ways, the second he didn’t care about something he just stopped working at it, but worked at the things he did care about. Watching that particular behavior, along with a combination of other (unsavory) characteristics made me feel very strongly like you that we cannot allow our kids to quit things. But it has to come with some kind of balance because I am seeing how unhealthy it is for me as an adult who doesn’t always differentiate wisely between making a conscious choice to stop doing something that’s just misery-inducing with no value and quitting because I don’t feel like trying but I should stick with it.
It’s that “should” that gets me! I feel like I SHOULD do everything and do it all well and always do it forever. That’s not sustainable even if I didn’t have a chronic health issue I’m dealing with and even if I wasn’t going it out of a misplaced sense of obligation.
We don’t allow our small kid to quit small tasks just because they don’t feel like it or they’re tired. We don’t let them quit out of class just because they’re upset. We had to deal with a tantrum during an online sports class once and I ordered them right back into the session because we paid for that and you can have your feelings about it after but you’re not wasting the class we’ve already paid for because you didn’t like something.
They often try to use tired as an excuse to get out of things, even though it doesn’t fly here. However. We do want them to learn to listen to their bodies and make good decisions based on that too. That feels like a harder lesson to impart and I’m not sure we’re getting it right but we keep trying to share the naunces of the fact that we show up and do our best always, but also that sometimes we need to make a wise choice to not go if the greater impact is negative. I know too many adult friends who take the Don’t quit attitude to extremes to the detriment of their health.
I definitely don’t have any definitive answers here but we’re doing our best and I know you’re doing your best, and I hope talking it out helps you figure out the best decisions for your family on a case by case basis.
I just remembered the other side of quitting being ok: I have at least three friends who wished they had known earlier that it was ok to stop giving their all to abusive marriages. Being told they weren’t allowed to choose not to be married because we don’t give up on marriage was so incredibly harmful for them, and that came from a basis of generally saying we don’t quit, period. So it naturally flowed from there that if you make a commitment to a relationship and it might lead to marriage, you make it work even if you are sacrificing yourself to the other person. That’s definitely not something I would have realized was a problem before seeing it play out.
MONDAY: Thinking of you and hoping today and the week with school goes well for all of you!
Lots of interesting comments. Quite an interesting topic as I dealt with a preteen who raged over music lessons this weekend. (She “went.”)
One thought experiment to add to the mix: if the friend had the same heat/lack of sleep issue during week 1 or 2 and didn’t attend that day, would you have had the same reaction? The child still attended 14 days of camp, regardless of when the missed day occurred. I raise this because it might help to figure out your priorities on illness, “completion”, and the like. I’m very sorry that you did not have a chance to rest when you had mumps. Not attending to you then feels like a very big thing.
As for the friend, having suffered through heat exhaustion and sleeplessness as a kid, I would have been sympathetic. It helps that my kids don’t complain about physical ailments much, in fairness. But somehow missing day 15 feels different than missing day 7, even though it’s not. That kid can still say she completed sailing camp. But sometimes I get hung up on symbols and checkboxes. Not attending the last day after not having slept doesn’t negate everything that came before it.